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	<title>Comments on: How can a website cost £35m? Easily.</title>
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	<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/</link>
	<description>Adventures in government, politics and open source. Mostly WordPress-related.</description>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2639</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2639</guid>
		<description>Great post Simon.  These folks should be shot - the procurement dept and the project managers.  Meantime, the new COI open source directives ought to help speed up the process....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Simon.  These folks should be shot - the procurement dept and the project managers.  Meantime, the new COI open source directives ought to help speed up the process....</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2637</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2637</guid>
		<description>Gary - that&#039;s not off topic at all.  It&#039;s the most relevant comment of the lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary - that's not off topic at all.  It's the most relevant comment of the lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2636</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2636</guid>
		<description>According to the COI figures, the content accounts for (roughly) 50% of the total cost. It&#039;s a lot of money, but content requires people to write, edit and check it; and people cost money.

To be perfectly honest, I find the content a bit hit-and-miss. All too often, it doesn&#039;t deliver the cut-and-dried answer I&#039;m hoping for. Mind you, that&#039;s probably due to the over-complexity of the tax/legal system, rather than the content&#039;s deficiencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the COI figures, the content accounts for (roughly) 50% of the total cost. It's a lot of money, but content requires people to write, edit and check it; and people cost money.</p>
<p>To be perfectly honest, I find the content a bit hit-and-miss. All too often, it doesn't deliver the cut-and-dried answer I'm hoping for. Mind you, that's probably due to the over-complexity of the tax/legal system, rather than the content's deficiencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2635</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2635</guid>
		<description>I know this is slightly off topic, however, I would just like to say that as someone who has been involved with small businesses (under 500k turnover), I have consistently found the business link website to be a very useful source of information. yes it could be improved and on the face of it, no it doesn&#039;t justify £35m. 

A small company with hardly any cashflow can access a lot of helpful tips and advice without being robbed by some overpriced consultant. I don&#039;t know how many businesses make use of the site but useing your i-phone apps analogy of saving one person from cancer, I feel sure there are a number of businesses that have saved money, adjusted their strategy, or expanded their business after making use of the information on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is slightly off topic, however, I would just like to say that as someone who has been involved with small businesses (under 500k turnover), I have consistently found the business link website to be a very useful source of information. yes it could be improved and on the face of it, no it doesn't justify £35m. </p>
<p>A small company with hardly any cashflow can access a lot of helpful tips and advice without being robbed by some overpriced consultant. I don't know how many businesses make use of the site but useing your i-phone apps analogy of saving one person from cancer, I feel sure there are a number of businesses that have saved money, adjusted their strategy, or expanded their business after making use of the information on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2634</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2634</guid>
		<description>Shame on the BBC for not reading your blog !
I always come here first, then the BBC as a poor second....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shame on the BBC for not reading your blog !<br />
I always come here first, then the BBC as a poor second....</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2632</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2632</guid>
		<description>Having to deliver to Government contracts on many occassions, I can point to the blind leading the blind on many IT projects. The more grandiose the scheme the better it feels for the Civil Servants leading the project - that usually means bigger budgets too. And there is so little focus on the &quot;vision&quot; - the real benefit from the programme - but lots of detail that is added in: contractual, financial, project management, governance, quality, security, safety, standards etc etc. A small company doesn&#039;t have much hope of covering all these bases.

These are REAL factors that make Government projects longer and harder. Plus each project is &quot;self-contained&quot; and doesn&#039;t share data - that only comes along at vast extra cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having to deliver to Government contracts on many occassions, I can point to the blind leading the blind on many IT projects. The more grandiose the scheme the better it feels for the Civil Servants leading the project - that usually means bigger budgets too. And there is so little focus on the "vision" - the real benefit from the programme - but lots of detail that is added in: contractual, financial, project management, governance, quality, security, safety, standards etc etc. A small company doesn't have much hope of covering all these bases.</p>
<p>These are REAL factors that make Government projects longer and harder. Plus each project is "self-contained" and doesn't share data - that only comes along at vast extra cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Hoover</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>As a freelance, I supplied content to the Business Link site.

This is how the sub-contracting chain worked: Business Link &gt; Serco &gt; Sweet &amp; Maxwell &gt; A small ltd co content provider &gt; Me.

Everybody in the chain needed their cut. This is one reason it cost so much.

But I&#039;ve also worked as an employee of a direct sub-contractor on a different gov.uk site. The team was enormous - at least 120. There were writers and editors, chief editors, a search team, a build team, a development team. Furthermore, everyone was paid roughly twice what they would have earned in the private sector. We&#039;re talking 40 to 50k for just uploading content.

Despite a veritable army operating the site, major changes were behind schedule, there was extensive turf war between contractors and employees, and nobody ever mentioned, let alone thought about, the users attempting to glean information from the site.

It wasn&#039;t just a gravy train. It was legalised plunder of the public purse. It was piratical in scope, and shameless in execution.

The bottom line? Salaries are where the money for Business Link went.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a freelance, I supplied content to the Business Link site.</p>
<p>This is how the sub-contracting chain worked: Business Link &gt; Serco &gt; Sweet &amp; Maxwell &gt; A small ltd co content provider &gt; Me.</p>
<p>Everybody in the chain needed their cut. This is one reason it cost so much.</p>
<p>But I've also worked as an employee of a direct sub-contractor on a different gov.uk site. The team was enormous - at least 120. There were writers and editors, chief editors, a search team, a build team, a development team. Furthermore, everyone was paid roughly twice what they would have earned in the private sector. We're talking 40 to 50k for just uploading content.</p>
<p>Despite a veritable army operating the site, major changes were behind schedule, there was extensive turf war between contractors and employees, and nobody ever mentioned, let alone thought about, the users attempting to glean information from the site.</p>
<p>It wasn't just a gravy train. It was legalised plunder of the public purse. It was piratical in scope, and shameless in execution.</p>
<p>The bottom line? Salaries are where the money for Business Link went.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2621</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2621</guid>
		<description>Websites of this type have to maintain content that has to be legally correct, approved by multiple civil servants annually or more often, and reworked into something the public can understand and act on, often over multiple cycles. Not like a simple throwaway comms site and not cheap. Techies seem to think stuff like this comes for free.

And there&#039;ll be a huge bureaucracy required to serve the governance process imposed by the owning Department. Ironically the governance is there to ensure that money is wisely spent, but ends up being one of the biggest overheads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Websites of this type have to maintain content that has to be legally correct, approved by multiple civil servants annually or more often, and reworked into something the public can understand and act on, often over multiple cycles. Not like a simple throwaway comms site and not cheap. Techies seem to think stuff like this comes for free.</p>
<p>And there'll be a huge bureaucracy required to serve the governance process imposed by the owning Department. Ironically the governance is there to ensure that money is wisely spent, but ends up being one of the biggest overheads.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kay</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2620</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2620</guid>
		<description>Years ago, when I was working for a big government IT supplier, I was sent along to a meeting at DTI to discuss a new web site project. It apparently had a budget of £20m, so we were interested. I asked how they intended to spend that kind of money, and was told that at present they had no idea. So I asked why they intended to spend that kind of money, and the answer was that the government thought e-government was a good thing and had therefore decided to spend lots of money on it.

So I went along to the meeting. There were about 25 consultants around the table, some representing potential suppliers, some representing the client. And it was quickly clear that there were no requirements. So the first phase would be a requirements-gathering exercise. Ah, some of the consultants knew some good requirements-gathering methodologies. Which one should the project use? Clearly, they had to be evaluated before one could be chosen. So there had to be a phase of evaluating requirements gathering methodologies. And of course, that phase had to be planned. So the only outcome of a meeting costing about £20K was an action for someone to write a plan for evaluating methodologies for gathering requirements for the government web-site. I think the site was the one that became BusinessLink, and after that meeting I was in no doubt that the government would have no difficulty at all in spending its £20m budget. By comparison, we had just built an online banking system for a major retail bank for under £5m.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago, when I was working for a big government IT supplier, I was sent along to a meeting at DTI to discuss a new web site project. It apparently had a budget of £20m, so we were interested. I asked how they intended to spend that kind of money, and was told that at present they had no idea. So I asked why they intended to spend that kind of money, and the answer was that the government thought e-government was a good thing and had therefore decided to spend lots of money on it.</p>
<p>So I went along to the meeting. There were about 25 consultants around the table, some representing potential suppliers, some representing the client. And it was quickly clear that there were no requirements. So the first phase would be a requirements-gathering exercise. Ah, some of the consultants knew some good requirements-gathering methodologies. Which one should the project use? Clearly, they had to be evaluated before one could be chosen. So there had to be a phase of evaluating requirements gathering methodologies. And of course, that phase had to be planned. So the only outcome of a meeting costing about £20K was an action for someone to write a plan for evaluating methodologies for gathering requirements for the government web-site. I think the site was the one that became BusinessLink, and after that meeting I was in no doubt that the government would have no difficulty at all in spending its £20m budget. By comparison, we had just built an online banking system for a major retail bank for under £5m.</p>
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		<title>By: James Firth</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/07/07/how-can-a-website-cost-35m-easily/comment-page-1/#comment-2618</link>
		<dc:creator>James Firth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=2122#comment-2618</guid>
		<description>I still cannot accept even *if* there was a 10 year build/host/maintain contract *and* substantially complex requirements or peak load requirements that at £35m the government got value for money.

Earlier this year I was working on a 3-year build/host/maintain contract for a complex system for an international organisation. The funding amounted to $1m over 3 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still cannot accept even *if* there was a 10 year build/host/maintain contract *and* substantially complex requirements or peak load requirements that at £35m the government got value for money.</p>
<p>Earlier this year I was working on a 3-year build/host/maintain contract for a complex system for an international organisation. The funding amounted to $1m over 3 years.</p>
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