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	<title>Comments on: Transport&#039;s web design spending</title>
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	<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/04/12/transports-web-design-spending/</link>
	<description>Adventures in government, politics and open source. Mostly WordPress-related.</description>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/04/12/transports-web-design-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-1325</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=1515#comment-1325</guid>
		<description>Being a freelancer myself, and not having looked at the results (so being ignorant of their quality or otherwise!) I tend to agree.... BUT... the headline figures can mislead a little I think.

Assuming the whole thing is competitively tendered then effectively outsourced to the winning agency, then 70K probably buys you a couple of months only of a designer/IAs time (and they probably produce 2 or 3 options, from which one is chosen).  Bearing in mind that a London agency charges at least 2.5* wages to turn a profit, has to produce and submit a tender before work starts (cost to them could be 10K easily), and then supplies the project/account management and other unnecessary middle men ! (i.e. assuming that the Dept don&#039;t have the staff internally).

Using the figures above, a cost of 70K to the dept. would only pay for about 20Ks worth of agency person&#039;s salary.  Let&#039;s be conservative and say that 1/3 of that is on PM/acct. manager etc.  So we are left with 14K of designer/IA (and maybe tech) salary.  Sounds like a smaller piece of work now.

Sure, it could be (much) cheaper if the dept. went straight to a known well-trusted freelance designer/IA/tech person.  I know because I am one as are you by the look of things.  There are transparency/accountability problems with that though as I&#039;m sure we have both experienced.

Ultimately that 70K is going into the economy, and supporting a number of jobs.  The main issue for me is an efficiency one - frighteningly little of it reaches the people doing the hands-on work.  Maybe only 20% :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a freelancer myself, and not having looked at the results (so being ignorant of their quality or otherwise!) I tend to agree.... BUT... the headline figures can mislead a little I think.</p>
<p>Assuming the whole thing is competitively tendered then effectively outsourced to the winning agency, then 70K probably buys you a couple of months only of a designer/IAs time (and they probably produce 2 or 3 options, from which one is chosen).  Bearing in mind that a London agency charges at least 2.5* wages to turn a profit, has to produce and submit a tender before work starts (cost to them could be 10K easily), and then supplies the project/account management and other unnecessary middle men ! (i.e. assuming that the Dept don't have the staff internally).</p>
<p>Using the figures above, a cost of 70K to the dept. would only pay for about 20Ks worth of agency person's salary.  Let's be conservative and say that 1/3 of that is on PM/acct. manager etc.  So we are left with 14K of designer/IA (and maybe tech) salary.  Sounds like a smaller piece of work now.</p>
<p>Sure, it could be (much) cheaper if the dept. went straight to a known well-trusted freelance designer/IA/tech person.  I know because I am one as are you by the look of things.  There are transparency/accountability problems with that though as I'm sure we have both experienced.</p>
<p>Ultimately that 70K is going into the economy, and supporting a number of jobs.  The main issue for me is an efficiency one - frighteningly little of it reaches the people doing the hands-on work.  Maybe only 20% <img src='http://puffbox.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/04/12/transports-web-design-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-1324</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=1515#comment-1324</guid>
		<description>Truth is, Matt, I don&#039;t know for sure without a clear indication of what they mean by &#039;design&#039;. And whilst £400k is certainly a drop in the ocean in terms of Transport&#039;s annual spend, that doesn&#039;t mean it can or should be shrugged off. (Look after the pennies, and all that.)

I look at Act On CO2 for example, which cost £220k, £50k and £70k in successive years - for &#039;design&#039;. &lt;i&gt;If&lt;/i&gt; that&#039;s purely for graphics work, then yes, that seems high. And I&#039;m a bit curious at the same website spending tens of thousands, year after year, on &#039;design&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth is, Matt, I don't know for sure without a clear indication of what they mean by 'design'. And whilst £400k is certainly a drop in the ocean in terms of Transport's annual spend, that doesn't mean it can or should be shrugged off. (Look after the pennies, and all that.)</p>
<p>I look at Act On CO2 for example, which cost £220k, £50k and £70k in successive years - for 'design'. <i>If</i> that's purely for graphics work, then yes, that seems high. And I'm a bit curious at the same website spending tens of thousands, year after year, on 'design'.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/04/12/transports-web-design-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-1323</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=1515#comment-1323</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m assuming you consider this (400k / year) excessively high ?
Of course, perhaps half of it goes straight back into the coffers in tax...

I&#039;d be interested in knowing what the department&#039;s total spend was (whether on or off the books, so including all staff and pension costs, cost of office space, and so on) over the same period.  I would expect 400k to be a minor expense, relatively speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm assuming you consider this (400k / year) excessively high ?<br />
Of course, perhaps half of it goes straight back into the coffers in tax...</p>
<p>I'd be interested in knowing what the department's total spend was (whether on or off the books, so including all staff and pension costs, cost of office space, and so on) over the same period.  I would expect 400k to be a minor expense, relatively speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/04/12/transports-web-design-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-1322</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=1515#comment-1322</guid>
		<description>If a lack of iPhone-friendliness was its only problem, Ian... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a lack of iPhone-friendliness was its only problem, Ian... <img src='http://puffbox.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ian Cuddy</title>
		<link>http://puffbox.com/2010/04/12/transports-web-design-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-1321</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Cuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://puffbox.com/?p=1515#comment-1321</guid>
		<description>And Transport Direct doesn&#039;t even have a iphone-friendly design...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Transport Direct doesn't even have a iphone-friendly design...</p>
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